Transcript
Good evening, everyone. My name is Joe Meko. I'm the secretary of the C.S. Lewis Society. On behalf of the society, I'm pleased to welcome you all here to the Woodrow Wilson School of Princeton University. I asked those people who are currently sitting in the aisles, but there are chairs. If you would like to take a chair at this time, it would be more than welcome, as we will come in as the talk progresses. Our guest speaker
tonight is Colonel H. Speed Wilson. Colonel Wilson has served in the United States Marine Corps for 31 years. He has seen combat action in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. And for nine years, he has served in the Pentagon, formulating national defense policy on a relatively high level. Colonel Wilson will be speaking this evening on the intriguing topic of Armageddon and U.S. military preparedness. And following Colonel Wilson's remarks, we'll entertain questions from a panel of
students, and then we'll open it up to questions from the audience. I have several comments to make before we begin. First, for any students here who are interested in learning more about the C.S. Lewis Society, we do have a sign-up sheet located down at the front of the room, on the bench right over here. And secondly, the literature that has been passed out this evening is in no way endorsed by the C.S. Lewis Society. Without
any further ado, I'd like to introduce you to Colonel H. Speed Wilson. Thank you. As an alumni of the University of Texas, I never thought I would be at Princeton. But when you finish, there'll be some of these being handed out, and it's a list of other talks that are available on cassette that I've given, and they're generally on biblical topics. There's one pastor after I'd given a talk on Bible prophecy came up rather angrily, and
he says, you know, it's real weird to hear a Marine Colonel teaching Bible. And I said, well, if you think that's weird, you ought to sit in the pew and hear some preacher tell you how to win the Vietnam War. So if he had been teaching Bible, you probably wouldn't have heard me, which would have been all the better for all of us, probably. But it must not be neglected. First off, the topic of Armageddon and
national defense posture or preparedness. If you're a Bible scholar and not just a footnote reader, you'll find that Armageddon only appears once in the New Testament, Revelation 16:16, and also only once in the Old Testament and Chronicles. And I am convinced it's referring to a spiritual battle and not a blood and guts hardware type battle. But we're not here to discuss theology, but we all know the connotation of Armageddon. It's used in the context of
the last great conflagration or conflict or war, if you please. So in that context, we'll start off, and I'd like to give you a biblical perspective. I think you'll find it interesting to find that many things in the Bible are historical, but there are also some things that are happening presently. And we've spent the last two days and two nights discussing those at gatherings here. But there are some things that clearly have never happened. And so
therefore, we have to assume they're in the future, because everything that was prophesied in the past came to pass, so we can be relative to assure whatever the Bible prophesies for the future, it will happen too. At least, God has never missed yet, so he has 100% accuracy. I had never looked at it that way until about 1967. So I would prefer a title tonight, maybe Russia, North America, and Israel in Bible Prophecy. The subjects
that we have covered the other sessions here have shown biblically that with the reestablishment of the nation Israel on the 14th of May 1948, actually 4 o'clock one Friday afternoon, began a generation according to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Luke 21, and a generation being 40 years. That generation would have seen a new age begin. So sometime between 48 and 88, we might expect a new age to
begin. I don't expect any radical occurrences to really get our attention. I really don't expect, Dan, rather, to come on the evening news and say, glory to God, that's the end of this age. Let's just get on with the next one. But we would look back in a historical perspective, and I think we would pinpoint it to be the end of the age to have occurred around 1986, next year, something like that. And then there's a
transitional generation that began the 7th day of June 1967, according to biblical prophecy, 7th day of June 1967, third day of the Six-Day War was when the city of Jerusalem returned to the control of nation Israel, which was also prophesied in the Bible, that it would occur after the ruler Titus destroyed the temple and Jerusalem 70 AD. And Jesus prophesied that some 38 years before it actually occurred. And then he said it would be that
way until toward the end of the age, Jerusalem would again return to the nation Israel, 7th day of June 1967. So with that background, we know we're in a time that is referred to in the Bible as the end of an age, or coming of the Son of Man, the time of the end. Oh, and I want to clear up one thing. It's not the end of the world, the King James-ism, the word aeon, meaning
age, is mistranslated. Some of you may not know, but the original text of the Bible, in the case of the Old Testament, is written in the Greek, and the New Testament also is written in, excuse me, is Hebrew, and the New Testament is Greek. And so they mistranslated the word aeon 32 times in the King James, as if it were the Greek word cosmos, which really means world, earth, or present order of things. And so therefore,
when you mention the end, many Bible scholars who have been raised on King James think the world's coming to an end. Don't worry about it. It's not. It's just the end of an age. So there goes a lot of fear out the window right now, aren't you glad you came, maybe if you were worrying about the end of the world, because God promised Abraham that his seed would be upon the earth for a thousand generations, to
your information. That's 40,000 years, and he made that promise only about 4,000 years ago. So we got a little while to go, and we have a few problems to work out. Thank the Lord. We have a little time to work them out with the guidance of the Lord. Now, if you have your Bibles, I would encourage you to open them to Ezekiel. If you don't, it doesn't really matter, because just for the benefit of
those that like to follow chapter and verse, we'll do this. Now in Ezekiel 37, for the Bible scholars or readers, we know that's the dry bones chapter, but I'm not going to go through that. I just want you to see that in Ezekiel 37:14, by the way, all this was written 600 years before Christ was born, and it's just now coming to pass. And I, that's God speaking, my spirit and you, and you shall live,
and I shall place you in your own land, and you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it, and is talking about the spiritual Israel and the geographical Israel. And so he's given them their own land, 14th of May, 1948, we talked about that. So now we want to get down to Ezekiel chapter 38. We always like to read in context. Most of the doctrines you'll find in fundamental Christianity are not based on Bible in
context. Sometimes they take a verse, which may be an even an incomplete sentence, and build a doctrine on it. So we want to try to keep things in its perspective. And we'll read verse one of Ezekiel 38. And the word of the Lord came upon me saying, remember again, this is 600 BC, about 2,600 years ago, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, and the chief prince of Meshach and
Tubal, and Tyrus and prophesy against him, and say, Thus saith the Lord God, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshach and Tubal. There's much to be learned there, but the main thing that we'll be interested in tonight is the point that God said he's against that group he just named. We find in Romans 8:31, that if God be for you, who can be against you? Well, we flip it here and say,
if God's against you, who can be for you? So it's really reassuring. Now some fundamentalists will teach you that Gog and Magog is Russia. That's not so. Gog in the Hebrew is any ungodly ruler. Magog could be translated to be the descendant of an ungodly ruler. However, Magog also has another meaning, and it turns out to be one of the descendants of Noah. By the way, there are a lot of antichrist types of Gog, ungodly rulers.
Not just one. You've heard the term antichrist, I assume, but there's no biblical basis for calling a single individual antichrist. 1 John 2:18 says there are many antichrists, ungodlies. And Magog, the descendant of Noah, he was the second son of Japheth, who was the first son of Noah. In Genesis 10, verses 1 through 7. Some of you may get a little annoyed by giving scripture in verse, but I get more annoyed with Bible teachers saying
the Bible says so and so, and they never told me where it said it. And I know cotton picking well it didn't say anything like what he said, but I'm giving you chapter and verse so you can check me out. The sons of Noah were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And the sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, that was one that was mentioned, and Mediah, Javan, Tubal, remember he was mentioned, and Meshach, remember he was mentioned, and
Tyrus, not mentioned. Some Bibles will throw in Cush and Putt, but they were the sons of Ham. Now that, as you might remember, when Noah got off the ark up on Mount Ararat, there weren't a whole lot of folks around. And so Noah said, I think I'll go north. And he did. He went up into Russia and that whole area up there was all his, but when he passed on, he left to his eldest son, that
was the way things worked in those days, and his eldest son was Japheth. So Japheth inherited all of that and known as the United Soviet Socialist Republics, including 40 captive nations adjacent to the original Soviet, and including 20 different ethnic groups. And then you can research some of the old Hebrew maps and find that Meshach would be western Turkey, Tubal would be eastern Turkey. So if God got it right, we can expect Turkey to become communist
very shortly. It's in the process now and it's accelerating. As I say, this was quite a shock to me to be reading this in 1967 when I was over in the Pentagon, which we jokingly called Fort Fumble, or Disneyland East, if you prefer. And see, we could do that because out of the 33,000 people in the five-sided building, only 8,000 were military. The rest of them were what we affectionately called Silly-Villians, and
they provide continuity, whatever benefit that might be, questionable at times. More appropriately, a term to you physics students is a high inertia. It really doesn't move, and once it gets moving in one direction, it's hard to change direction. And so it was quite a relief to see some of this over on contingency planning. So let's go on. And I will turn thee back and put hooks in your jaws. And well, we can skip a lot of
that. And all of the cloth and heavy horsemen and all the armor and bucklers and shield. And here's where we get interesting. Verse five. Here are the allies of Russia in the last days or latter years. Persia. That's Iran. Persia became Iran in 1937. It's very popular today to change the name of your nation. Cambodia, Campuchia, Rhodesia, Zimbabwe, going down the line. So Persia became Iran. Ethiopia, Libya, and all of them with them, all of them
shield and helmet and so forth. Remember, he's the first son of J. Fath and the house of Togomar, the northern quarter and so forth. And now God says, be thou prepared. In other words, Russia, you get prepared or Soviet Union. I've got to quit calling Russia. It's really the United Soviet Socialist Republic of the Soviets. Be thou prepared and power thyself and thou and all that company that are with thee assembled unto thee and be a
guard or be their commander. So when the Soviet Union says they're not involved in these nations, God says they're a fire because he put them in charge. By the way, in the Bible, it finds that man makes his plans, but God directs his steps. And so God has everything under control. He's not pacing the halls of heaven wondering how this whole thing is going to work out. So we don't have to, well, I think he wants
us to know too. In fact, we find in the New Testament, God said nine times, I would not have you ignorant. So if we're ignorant, we're ignorant by our own choice. And so Ethiopia became a communist nation in 1974. That was amazing. It wasn't a communist nation when I first began to read this, but I saw it was going to be. Libya became a communist nation in 1970. Gomer, the son of Japheth, that's Eastern Germany and
Poland. You can find that on the ancient Hebrew maps. Toghomir, the northern quarter, that would be the area we call today the Warsaw Pact nations. I thought it was interesting in studying this that at that time, when I became aware of this, Egypt was a communist nation, but it wasn't listed. So, and Egypt ceased to be a communist nation in 1973 at the end of the 73 war. So therefore, God knew what he was writing about.
And he was seeing 2020 forward vision. And then we go on down. Well, Russia is, of course, fomenting the trouble in the Middle East. Now, interesting. You might remember not so long ago in 1978, we had a fellow in the White House called Jimmy Carter. And Jimmy Carter was quite shocked at a point in his administration. But before he became shocked, the CIA Director Richard Helms, by the way, Mr. Helms was the only head of the
CIA who was actually a career CIAist. All the rest have been politicians, even to come in, including William Casey today. He's a politician, not a career type. And so Richard Helms said in Time magazine, December 1979, this talk about there being no evidence of Russia involved in Iran and the Middle East is absurd nonsense. Well, a year later, November '79, when Russia invaded Afghanistan, President Karnler finally came on the television and said he was sorry to
learn that Russia cannot be trusted. He should have read a book that was published in 1971 entitled, You Can Trust the Communist to Be Communist. And J. Edgar Hoover's master's received the Overstreet's book, The War Called Peace, and so forth. And so there were a lot of documentation, but he chose to be ignorant. And in 1973, President Brezhnev signed an agreement with the United States to refrain from, quote, use of force in circumstances which might endanger
international peace and security. That became known as detente, which behind the scenes, the communists defined as a continuation of peaceful coexistence. Peaceful coexistence in the writings of Lenin and others literally translates into surrender on the installment plan. And by the way, Lenin also wrote that we will not take the world in one lion gulp. We'll do it as a duck eats the corn one grain at a time. So you don't get too upset unless you're the
corn. But well, that's how you peacefully coexist. When he ingests you in as a grain of corn, then you become a part of the duck and you peacefully coexist. That has occurred in about two thirds of the world today. And in the process in Central America, cleverly designed to look like civil wars, but they call them wars of national liberation. Well, let's go on and reading is starting with Ezekiel 38, verse 8. After many days, thou
shall be visited in the latter years. Now, in the context of this scripture right here, the latter years began in 1917 with the Bolshevik Revolution. And thou shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword and gathered out of many nations. Well, that occurred at the end of World War II when Russia moved into the so-called satellite states, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, so forth, 40 captive nations, and certainly 20 different ethnic groups we've
already mentioned, and against the mountain of the Israel, which has always been a waste, so it wasn't talking about Israel, but is brought forth out of many nations and they will dwell in safety, all of them. Verse 9, thou shall ascend and come like a storm. There's a lot we can say in here, but we want to get along. Like a cloud to cover the land and thou and all the bands with thee and the many
people with thee, which has already been named the allies and all of that. Verse 10, thus saith the Lord God, it shall come to pass that at that same time in the years since 1917, things shall come into your mind and you'll think an evil thought or propose or develop an evil plan. And here's the evil plan. There's a colon there and this is the evil plan. And thou shall think or plan, I will go up
into the land of Anwal villages. That's not Israel. It's certainly not Europe. Little research will show you that the United States, Canada, probably New Zealand, Australia, a few other nations are about the only ones that have never had any walled cities. Jerusalem has a wall inside the wall. Most European countries have great fortresses, walls inside walls. But it's going to be describing the United States and Canada here as we see as we go along. I will
go to them that rest and dwell in safety. Well, certainly it couldn't be Israel. Israel is still threatened, extremely been involved in, I think, five or six wars since it became a nation. And all of them dwelling without walls and neither having bars or gates. In the Hebrew text, it says these two nations have unguarded borders. But that's King Jamesism for that. The United States and Canada. Well, it certainly couldn't be talking about Israel. Their borders
are guarded, Arafat and some others have found that out. And certainly over in Europe, the borders are guarded. However, they're beginning to break down the borders between the common market or economic community over there. But since the beginning of our two nations, the borders between the United States and Canada have been almost totally unguarded in North Dakota. Some of those areas out there, if you don't go through a main access road, you'd never know when you
cross from one border to the other. That's not quite true in our border with Mexico. And to take a spoil and take a prey and turn that hand upon the desolate place. Desolate means not much folks there. Well, we were sort of desolate 600 BC when Ezekiel was giving this. There weren't many here. And that are now inhabited. That's an interesting phrase. 1917, the end of the latter years, we were beginning to develop over here. And
now what? Between our two nations, Canada and the United States, probably approaching 300 million people. And upon the people that are gathered out of many nations, my goodness, just look around at yourselves, out of many nations, many nationalities. Certainly fulfill that. I was once curious as to what my ancestry might be. And as near as my granddad Speed could tell me, I was Scotch-Irish, Dutch, and French. But they call that mongol, I think, or something
along that, or a Heinz variety. And other and gathered out of the nations and have gotten cattle and goods. Had you ever thought of that? Israel has never been known as a cow country. They don't even make movies about cowboys and Arabs. But they dwell in the midst of the land. Now, in the literal Hebrew says they dwell in a position as the naval. Well, I think that's an allegory of the food source for an embryo
within its mother. That's where it gets it. And the United States and Canada can literally feed the world by our food. You know, our biggest problem is surpluses in the United States. This PIC program and other programs to put land into layaway and not to raise food. Of course, there's an ulterior motive. It keeps the prices up, but it also runs the farmers out of business. But you have to balance that off with bureaucracy and some
ulterior motives. In the midst of the land. Then verse 13. So the plan. Well, we'll finish that. Sheba and Dedan. Someone has read that one time and thought Sheba was a woman and Dedan was her husband. That's sort of like someone who thought that an epistle was the wife of an apostle. But Sheba and Dedan is Saudi Arabia. You can find that on the old map. And the merchants of Tarsus. That would be anyone who plies
the oceans. The merchants of Tarsus. Italy in that area were the merchants. Maritimes in that time. And with all the young lions, probably referring to the former colonists of the British Empire. And thereof will say unto thee, unto the Soviet, asking a question. Have you come to take a spoil and take and gather a great company to make a prey and to carry away our silver and gold and take our cattle and so forth? And most
all of our allies are asking just exactly that. Because we have not honored a single treaty since the end of World War II. Not one. We certainly didn't honor our treaty in Southeast Asia to defend South Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand. And we welched on that one. And we certainly have not kept our treaty of the Central American, Latin American countries under the Rio Pact. And all of those treaties have been ratified by the Senate. In fact, Southeast
Asia was passed with only two dissenting votes. I hear people say, why did we ever go to Vietnam? Well, it's because we had a treaty. And we have 43 other treaties just like it. So if we don't honor one, then we fall separately. We should have learned something prior to World War II. If we don't stand together, then these aggressors will take them one at a time, just like Lenin said he would. As we find out,
there's one thing we can learn from history. That is that we don't learn from history. We just keep repeating the same stupid mistakes. And so now I want to go back and describe, because with my background a little different than some, in 1950-51, I was out in Korea during that war. We had the war won three times. And each time we had it won, we were told to blow up our ammunition and withdraw. And then
we started negotiating with the communists. While I say World War II is not history to me, I was in it. And I remembered the negotiations with Hitler. We were negotiating the world away. And I also remembered that there should be some discourse on this. Somebody ought to know about the communist techniques. So I wrote back to the University of Texas librarian and asked for an authoritative discourse on communist techniques. And so she sent me three great
big volumes of the works of Lenin, about each one of them the size of a normal encyclopedic or something like that. And this is what I read in the first chapter of the first volume, written between 1917 and 1921. Our purpose is the creation of a worldwide Soviet republic. He didn't even speak in parables, did he? First, we will take Eastern Europe. Well, they had it by about 1946. Then the masses of Asia. China, 1948-49.
They're just consolidating the masses of Asia as they move into Cambodia and Malaysia on down, Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, and so forth. They'll take all of that area because about 250 million people in there and resources beyond calculation. Probably more oil off Indonesia than there is all the Middle East. So it's a real prime. Then the masses of Asia. Then we will surround the United States, which will be the last stronghold of capitalism. We will not have
to attack. It will fall into our hands like an overripe fruit. And I want to emphasize that because a lot of fright about thermonuclear destruction. Russia has never planned on destroying this nation by thermonuclear holocaust. They're planning on us surrendering. Lenin also wrote, the capitalists will contribute to their own death by hanging and actually bid for the sale of the rope. Building truck factories for them. 36 acres of truck factory at Kama building trucks for their
invasion forces and engines for their tanks, which are produced 14 a week. And on and on and on. So if everything goes the way they have it planned, we will surrender. The theme goes this way. External encirclement plus internal demoralization will equal surrender. Now, thermonuclear blackmail certainly fits into it. So that's the reason the Soviets have laid down in the negotiations of arms. By the way, if you've often heard about SALT, the Soviets joke about it
even in the Red Star military paper. They define SALT as stop America's leading technology. That's what SALT means to them. They've done it every one of the times. So they're setting a precondition that we give up the strategic defense initiatives. News media term Star Wars. Because if we went forward with the development of the strategic defense initiative, and it is all defensive, there's nothing offensive about it. Well, it's offensive to the Russians because it knocks out
all of their offensive weapons. And then the MAD program becomes zero. If you're not familiar with MAD, it's the Mutually Assured Destruction. And it is MAD. How foolish. It worked for the Russians because as long as we had mutually assured destruction, and nobody would initiate a thermonuclear war, then they could go ahead taking the world a country at a time. Perfect. So it worked great for them. And all in the name of detente. But an abbreviated
Star Wars or strategic defense initiative was capable when I retired some 10 years ago. And so the people who say that it's not technically feasible are just whistling through their hat. It was. And we've certainly gone a long way down the road today. The easiest and most available is the simple kinetic energy system or kinetic particles where you just, it's just a glorified shotgun, if you prefer, out in space in orbit with multiple barrels around the
thing. And complicated sensing devices to pick up the heat that's generated by a missile. Here comes the missile at 25 or 26,000 miles an hour, no resistance in outer space. So you fire these carbon hard particles at it covering vast amounts here. It doesn't have to be too accurate. And to the path of the oncoming missile, which can be instantly calculated by computers, so it has to go through that field of particles. And both of
them travel at 26 to 30,000 miles an hour with a combined collision of 60,000 miles an hour. They just completely disintegrate through the kinetic energy. And that's available now and very, very cheap. We could have an effective strategic defense initiative for half of what it's going to cost to the MX program, which requires that we dig up half of Montana and Idaho to put some missiles in there that are worthless anyhow. But it's good
for contractors who dig holes and pour concrete. But it's not so good for you and I who are sitting here waiting for the things to fall on our head. And I've sounded off in contingency planning. I've often said, and I'll just quote myself in the planning, I said it's the most stupid thing in the world to have intercontinental ballistic missiles based in our own land. Because those are the things that the enemy Soviets have to knock
out first. So you're in essence pulling the enemy missiles right down on your head. The United States occupies only 2% of the Earth's surface. In the old obsolete days when we just had ICBMs alone, the ideal would be to have concrete silos, that's a big tube with one end of it plugged, made out of concrete so it would barely float and big enough to hold an MX or whatever you wanted to put in it and
get a bunch of tugboats and drag them around out in the ocean. And some of them would have missiles in them, some of them wouldn't. That gets costly for the Soviets to develop a technique to find out which one's the decoy and which one's got the pee, you know, the shell game, you know, shuffle them around. So it's very cheap for us but very expensive for them for their countermeasure. And you always have to figure there
will be a countermeasure but make it so expensive that it hurts the enemy to develop the countermeasure. And the ocean occupies 80% of the Earth's surface and there aren't many folks living out there. So if they knock off a tugboat, well, get a good insurance premium for the crew, you know. But let's not kill millions of people when we don't have to and make it as expensive as possible. But now we have a countermeasure to
destroy most of the Russian missiles before they ever left the Soviet air spaces. And so the counterargument to the Strategic Defense Initiative is, well, you can't get them all. Well, that's really a puny argument. We can't get any unless we start something. So if you got a half a dozen, that's more than we get now. So we can get going. But you can tier the thing and you could probably get most of them or if not
all of them because you get them in outer space. You get them into the meteor and the few that get through there, then you have land basements that knock them off as they re-enter. And it's a little simpler because they're pretty hot at that time. But that's just all the background. But let's look at the nuts and bolts of could they really do anything? I'll just make the statement that there are wars of national liberation,
which they designed to look like civil wars in the news media and we have most of us fall for it that it is a civil war, they call it wars of national liberation. And they've been highly successful. I'm convinced that World War III started when World War II ended. We just haven't recognized it. And some of the battles of World War III, Latvia, Estonia, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Angola, Libya, Ethiopia, South Vietnam, Cambodia, Rhodesia, and right now Afghanistan,
South Africa, Taiwan, and pretty soon Mexico. And I don't know that we'll even get too upset or do anything when they come into Mexico and they're well ensconced there. Because you see, we were not allowed to win in Vietnam, and if we had time, we could tell you that because I was on contingency planning for Vietnam, but McNamara, Dean Rusk, and Fulbright would never allow the military plan to be executed. And it certainly did not include
thermonuclear wars. And I didn't understand that until I realized through reading extensively by a power behind Russia that we purposely were not allowed to win in Vietnam. So it'd create the illusion that we can't win these wars of national liberation so that we'll never again intervene. And everybody says, did it ever occur to you that the United States defeated Japan and the Pacific almost single-handedly? And then to say we couldn't win a war in Vietnam?
Pass a nine. You've also heard this thing too. Well, we dropped more bombs in Southeast Asia than we did in World War II and Korea combined. And we didn't win the war, so therefore we can't win those kind of wars. Well, the first statistic is correct, but the conclusion is wrong. Because all the targets in South Vietnam were assigned from Washington, D.C., and all the bombs had to be dropped in the jungles. No meaningful targets.
I repeat that. No meaningful targets ever, ever, ever, ever. We killed a lot of baboons and mosquitoes with thousand-pound bombs, but we didn't really hurt Ho Chau Minh and his bunch. We weren't even allowed to close the Haiphong Harbor, which has a 10-mile channel with only one ship at a time going through it. And the military planned for called for the same thing we did when the Japanese had it in World War II. And
that's run an old scuttle bucket up in there. An old ship were going to sink anywhere or sell to Gillette to make razor blades. And run it up in there full of rocks and cement and sink it, and that would close it. And that would have locked 150 Russian or Soviet ships out, which was supplying the war. And they couldn't ship through China. I think this is funny. They couldn't ship through China on the railroad because
Russian Soviets were putting MiG-23s in the crates on the railroad cars and running through China. But when the railroad cars got to South Vietnam, they had turned to MiG-15s, an obsolete airplane. So something happened en route, but China was getting some pretty good airplanes. So they had to in-run the whole thing and bring it around by the boats. How about the military preparedness of the United States today? Well, I won't talk about manpower
because that's down so far. It just makes you sick. And about two-thirds of the defense budget goes to pay for personnel, their accommodation, salaries, and feeding them and all that sort of thing. So here are the statistics as the last intelligence briefing I attended. These are the advantage of the Soviet Union over the United States and NATO. Six to one in nuclear firepower, 47 to one in defense against nuclear attack. We have zero, so that's
pretty good. And five to one in tax, that's up to about six to one now. Seven to one in artillery, 100 to one in conventional warfare ammunition. So we would probably be out of ammunition within 90 days in a conventional war. And 10 to one in artillery for support of the ground troops, three to one in fighter aircraft, five to one in all classes of naval ship, and four to one in nuclear-powered submarines. There's a
side remark there. Russians have over 400 submarines. Hitler nearly sank everything we had with 52 at the beginning of World War II. We have about 132, I think, the last count. So the oceans are theirs. There's no way if we ever end up in a conventional war with them, we'll have to fight the war with what we have within the continental limits of the United States, and we hope Canada would be our ally at that time.
If we keep abusing her, I doubt that. In 1976, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, a Christian Russian, said, at one time there was no comparison between the military strength of Russia, or he says Russia and the United States. That was about 1955 up until that. Then it became equal. That was in 1972. And then, and this was about eight years ago, but now eight years ago, as anyone will have to recognize, it has become superior to the United States
and its allies. Soon it will be two to one, then three to one. That's about where it is now, if you take an overall average. And you must realize that the Soviet is fully determined to destroy your society. Secretary of the Navy, J. William Mittendorf. I know him fairly well. He said eight years ago, we face a Soviet threat far greater than any threat this nation has ever faced in all of its history. Brezhnev said in
1973 that as a result of détente and the United States' growing weakness and internal demoralization and the rapid growth of the Soviet power, that by 1985, I believe that's the year we're in, by 1985, we will be able to enforce our will anywhere on earth we desire. They had a little setback in Lebanon when Israel invaded and destroyed enough equipment for somewhere between a half a million and a million troops. Now your news media didn't tell
you that because if they'd have told you that, then the invasion of Israel into Beirut would have been justified, and they want you to think it wasn't. But it was beneficial because they found a list of about 2,000 Russian spies in the catacombs, and if you remember back in that time, there was a lot of Russians being arrested shortly thereafter. But here's Mr. Kissinger, and I believe he knows what's going on. Those that have been
some of the talks that we've had before, you recognize Mr. Kissinger as a man of destiny. He wrote in 1979, It is generally recognized that in the early eighties, the Soviet Union will have the capability to destroy most of our land-based ICBMs. Did you notice he said land-based, not ocean-based? And in the same time period, we will not be able to destroy theirs, thanks to Kennedy, McGovern, Church, Baye, and Javits and Fulbright. We
have no anti-ballistic missile system. We have no significant counter-force, and we are clearly inferior in our capacity for wars of national liberation. As I started to say a while ago, people say about Central America, we don't want another Vietnam. Absolutely, we don't. Let's go down there and win it. That's my answer, too. I don't want another Vietnam either. It's frustrating. Besides, it's unhealthy to a lot of folks. It's pretty expensive. And on the political
system projects an impression that we're not willing to use force in these wars of national liberation. The Soviets may perceive a time in which its internal political-economic problems are increasing. And man, they have problems, really problems. If I had time, I would outline some of them for you. Is increasing while their military power will potentially be world-dominant. And if that military power is not used during that period of time, the Soviets' long-term fate
is extremely uncertain. Therefore, we're entering a time of maximum peril. End quote, Henry Kissinger, May 1979. So that's the way it is. That's the bad news. Now let's get to the good news. And believe me, if you have the responsibility on some of this planning, when I found this out, this was great. By the way, just as a little levity, I was over in the Pentagon, a General Sutherland, a three-star general, chairman of the contingency
planning, which is made up of seven generals and 21 bird colonels of all branches of the services. And so I was excited. I showed this to General Sutherland. He asked me to have lunch with him and I accepted, naturally. They eat a little better in the general's mess than they do where I've been eating. Plus, you know, his request was my command. And so I was sharing this with him. I said, did you ever notice this,
General Sutherland, that here it says that Iran is going to become communist, Ethiopia is going to become communist, Libya is going to become communist. Of course, Germany and Poland already was. And I said, Egypt's not listed. And so we can expect that to come to pass. Him being a Bible believer, he was excited about that. So he said, well, Colonel Wilson, I'm going to open the meeting this afternoon. We'll take care of the agenda and nothing
really earth-shaking on the agenda. A bunch of study groups going out and so forth. So at the end of the meeting, I'm going to call on you to share that with that group. And I said, well, I don't know how to do it. They don't believe the Bible. He said, well, think of something. But he helped me out. So after the agenda was taken care of, General Sutherland turned and said, Colonel Wilson, United States Marine
Corps. Of course, we all wore civilian clothes over there because in Washington, it's dangerous to wear a uniform. You can get shot. We used to tell the Marines when we sent them back from Vietnam, now we'll give you a survival course before we send you back to the States. He says, Colonel Wilson, United States Marine Corps has an intelligence brief. I thought, man, that's great. Thank you. There's an intelligence brief that he'd like to give you.
So I started out the usual brief. This fellow has been a reliable source. You usually have to justify it. He's been accurate up to now. And he's foretelling that we might see Egypt cease to be a communist nation. We would expect Iran to become communist, Ethiopia to become communist, and Libya to become communist. And there was a brand new general on the board, General Armstrong held up his hand and said, Colonel, what is your SI, your
source of information? I said, Ezekiel. Well, they all have code names, the spoochies we do. So he said, is he with the CIA or the DIA? I said, he's with G-O-D. He sat there for a minute. He wasn't going to show his ignorance. General Sutherland about to fall off his chair. And I could see him. I think probably as close as he got was government operations division, probably. I don't know. But he wasn't going
to show his ignorance, so it went on. Now then, quickly now. Now we're at verse 14. See the paragraph if you're reading, it's a new paragraph. Therefore, a son of man prophesied and said to Gog, thus saith the Lord God, and that day when my people of Israel dwell in safety, will you not know it? Well, that's been true ever since the end of the 1973 war. There hasn't really been any big problem with Israel. They've
been trying to secure their borders, but that's about it. So that has come to pass. So Russia sees that. And thou shall come from thy place out of the north. If you draw a line due north from Jerusalem, it misses Moscow less than 60 miles. Northern parts, thou and all the people with them, riding upon horses in a great company and so forth, on down the line. And you will come up against my people of Israel
as a cloud to cover the land, and so it shall be in the latter days, in the latter days. That was in 1967 when the Soviet Union changed their policy and their minister of defense made an interesting statement to the communist parties of the world. He said, in the past, our naval and aviation units have been designed to operate primarily near our own shores. But now, May 1967, we will be prepared for broad offensive aggressive actions.
Those are strong words. Against the capitalist on the oceans, nothing new there. And the adjacent territories, that was a new one. So we began to look at maps and all over, and we found that approximately 80% of the world's population live within 150 miles of the coast, the adjacent territories. And the CIA was getting us film showing that the Russians were developing some amphibious equipment. They were developing aircraft carriers and other things that wouldn't fit
a defense program. We don't say that the CIA steals things, they liberate things from the Russians. So they had liberated some Russian film. And it was most enlightening. And it confirmed this. And I will bring thee against my land, and here's the reason why. That the heathen, the unbeliever, may know me when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. And what follows there for quite a few verses is a description of worldwide
earthquakes and whatnot that's going to happen. But I want to get down to verse 22. And I will bring against him, or plead King James's head, bring against him, that's Russia and their allies, that come into the Middle East with a pestilence, a disease, and with blood. Apparently it'll be a hemorrhaging internal or external, I don't know which. And I will rain upon him and his bands and upon the many people that are with him on
overflowing rain. Now that's an interesting situation when you consider that Russia is developing massive tank movements for desert warfare, similar to what Rommel and whatnot in that area. It's very conducive to tank warfare and whatnot. But and the only reason it's conducive to tank warfare is because it's desert and it's dry. But look what God's going to do. He's going to hit them with an overflowing rain. And he said it's an overflowing rain. As they say
in South Carolina, that's a frog strangler, boy. It's an overflowing one. So that bogs all their tanks down. We found that in Korea, and then we had to rediscover it in Vietnam. That you run a tank out into a riverbed and if it saturated the sand, you get what they call quicksand and you just lost the tank. And they bogged down. And you leave it alone till the battle's over and then go back and try to
get it out. And an overflowing rain. Now he's got them bogged down. And then look what he's going to do. He's going to hit them with giant hailstones. Revelation 16:21 says these hailstones weigh 50 pounds and greater. As we'd say in the Marine Corps, that'll bend your old tin hat. But the beautiful thing is, you won't be cooking in it anymore. But the beautiful thing is that in today's warfare, all modern weaponry is radar controlled.
And to radar control on a tank and the others, it has that little blip on it or it may have a balloon on it. And that balloon that houses the little antenna that's switching around looking for targets and whatnot is housed in fiberglass. And a 50-ground hailstone just blends with it beautifully. And it wouldn't be too healthy for the little antenna in there. It's pretty delicate too. So now they're blind. Zachariah said these mighty horses
will be blinded. Well, maybe that's it. I don't know. But then fire and brimstone. Genesis 19:24 says that that's the same words that are used to de-hip Sodom and Gomorrah with. And I checked the footnotes and it didn't say he used it all at Sodom and Gomorrah. So he may have some more laying around there. And so now they've had it. Verse 23, thus I will magnify myself and I'll sanctify myself and I will
be known in the eyes of many nations that they will know that I am the Lord. Well, I think they figured that out by now. But in the days that Ezekiel was prophesying this, the way God was sanctified was with a burnt offering. And now he has one. Well, chapter 39. Therefore, son of God, prophesy against Gog and Magog and say, thus saith the Lord God, I'm against thee. Well, I just sort of bet they figured
that out that somebody doesn't like them. And the chief prince of Meshach and Tubal, let's skip on down. And they'll fall in the land and the mountains and the ravenous birds will come and eat them, the beasts of the field and all that sort of thing. I want to get down to verse eight. Behold, it's come, it's done. I know whether it's over. Now, I want to point out something before I forget it. Behold, it's done,
it's over. Did you notice that this plan against the United States and Canada to surround the United States, all that sort of thing, would fall like an overripe fruit? It doesn't come to pass. That's a plan that didn't work out. An interesting thing happened on the way to the United States. They stopped off in the Middle East and God took care of the problem. The man over in Puzzle Palace or the Pentagon, I took a deep
breath. Man, that's great. Behold, it's come, it's done, saith the Lord God. This is the day. Apparently, this is going to be a one-day war. If the world didn't figure out that God was on Israel's side in the six-day war, they might figure it out in the one-day war. Isn't that interesting? A nation of Israel representing a million and a half people in 1967, defeating nations representing 90 million people and did it in
six days. A Christian Hebrew, Sid Roth, asked me one time jokingly, said, Speed, do you know why they had to do it in six days? Of course, the Bible says they've got to keep the seventh day holy. He said, that sounds like a Gentile answer. He said, literally, they had all their tanks rented from Hertz on a special week rate. I had to have a day to clean them up. I think it's great, too. They said,
joke, this is a joke. In the heat of the battle, an Arab tank rammed into the back of an Israeli tank, and of course, the Egyptian jumped out with his hands up to surrender, and the Hebrew jumped out holding his neck, hollering, whiplash, whiplash. Where's my lawyer? Behold, it's coming, it's done, and this is the day whereof I have spoken. Verse 9, and they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and they'll set
fire and burn the weapons, both the buckler and the shield, and the bows and the arrows, and the hand staves and spears, and they will burn them with fire for seven years, so that they shall not take wood out of the fields, neither cut down any of the forest, for they shall burn the weapons with fire, and they'll spoil those that have spoiled them, they'll rob them that would have robbed them, saith the Lord God. That
is interesting. First off, people have a little trouble if you've been moving in Christian circles of prophecy, your little booklets that say, did you hear that Russia's buying a whole bunch of horses, so this battle's about to come off? No, they're buying them to eat, but they're not buying them to the battle, and then they come up with, did you hear that Russia has developed a compressed wood with epoxy, and it's five or six times stronger
than steel by pound? Well, of course, we have that, we've had it for years, and so therefore they're going to make their tanks out of wood, so that they can burn them for seven years and all that. Well, you wouldn't get me in a wooden tank, or if the Russians have wooden tanks, give me a battalion of Marines with bicks, and we'll go out and put them out of business. Lighting them with our bick on them,
and they're making tanks out of carbon hard case steel, just like anybody else would. But even if they were, let's give the lunatic fringe the benefit of the doubt, and say, well, now if these weapons were made out of wood, if they were destroyed up here with fire and brimstone, how are you going to gather up and burn them if they've already been destroyed by fire? That's a dilemma. Well, Ezekiel probably had a little problem with
that too, but Ezekiel really didn't have much of a problem with it, because he recognized these were typologists, because Joel and Amos and many others, Zach and I, all talk about these heavily armed horses. Can you imagine showing Ezekiel a tank? How would he describe a tank? Isaiah saw these tanks, well, heavily armored horses, but he said when they ran, they sounded as many chariots with feet of flint running on stone. That's what a tank sounds,
squeak, squawk, squack, bong, bong, bang, bang, pop, grind, and so forth. So he was seeing horses, but they made an unusual sound. Now, you'll find in Joel 2 verses 4 and 5, that he saw these heavily armored horses leaping from one mountaintop to another. I was born and raised on a ranch out in West Texas, and I rode some horses that could jump pretty high, but not from mountaintop to mountaintop. But they made an unusual sound.
They sounded as many forest fires. Well, that's about as close as you could come of describing a helicopter gunship. The blade's going wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, and the gun's going bing, bing, bing, bing, banging along, and so pretty close. So that's what he's doing. But back to the burning the weapons. They go back and they gather up the thermonuclear weapons, uranium-2, whatever it might be. See, it doesn't burn. It melts pretty much like lead
or gold, only a whole lot heavier. And so they go out and get that. It wouldn't burn. So there's quite a lot of it out in the warheads, the tactical thermonuclear weapons that the Russians would have. And so they gather it up, and the actual Hebrew in verse 10 says they won't need wood or any such thing for seven years. So they take back the uranium, let's say 238, and reform it into rods or pellets, whichever
form they use in their reactors, and they won't need wood for any such thing for seven years. Now I'll skip down here. They're going to name this place, if you went over there on a tour, apparently this becomes quite a tourist attraction because it says in seven months they'll gather and so forth, and the land will be cleansed. And yea, all the people of the land will bury them. And at the same time, this day of
renown, they'll glorify it. And when the tourists come, verse 12, that's passengers, when the tourists, they see the remains, when you get off the bus, you'll be given a little flag apparently, and you see a man's bones, you put a flag by it, or you can bring it home as a souvenir. And they will cleanse the land. At the end of seven months, they'll call the place Haman Gog. I don't know what that means. I guess
it means this is where Gog got it right here. But this is the funny part down here, verse 17. And thou, son of man, saith the Lord God, speaking to ever feathered fowl, ever beast of the field, assemble yourselves and come and gather yourselves to every side to my sacrifice, which I do sacrifice for you, the birds. And I'm sure the Russians would agree this whole show was for the birds, man. That's the way it turns
out. So now you might wonder about the settlements. Last two verses of Amos tell us, and I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they will build the waste cities. Isn't that interesting? And they will inhabit them, and they will plant their vineyards, and they will drink the wine thereof. From the time you plant a vineyard until you're drinking wines quite a while. And they shall have their gardens, and they'll eat the
fruit from their gardens. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled out of the land. And I, Lord God, have given it to them. So they're there to stay. Now here's a future event that's most exciting in Isaiah, chapter 19, about the last four verses. And the Lord shall smite Egypt. Well, he did that through Israel repeatedly. And he'll smite and heal it. He's probably in the process of healing
Egypt right now. And they shall return even to the Lord. So we're finding that already. Egyptians coming to know the Lord Jesus Christ. And he shall entreat them, and he shall heal them. Verse 23. And in that day there shall, this is exciting, there shall be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria. Now Assyria was an old nation, an ancient nation that began up around Afghanistan, included all of Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, on down through Syria today
and down through there. So the only way you could get from Egypt to the nation of Assyria at that time would be right across the middle of Israel. And the Assyrians shall come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria. In other words, they'll have a thorough affair on Audubon or interstate or whatever you want to call it. And the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. That'll be a real day. And in that day Israel shall be
a third or an equal partner with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land. And here's the beautiful part. Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt, my people, and Assyria, the work of mine hands, and Israel, mine inheritance. Isn't that glorious? Now we can take off our pack. God's going to work this whole thing out. He has everything under control. And He's not too excited about it. So
be at peace about it. And there's a whole lot more that could be said in the Bible. But I think it's time we close off and entertain some questions and try to answer. Where's the panel? It was on both sides. It's all right. OK. We'll now take questions from our panel, the gentleman sitting in the front row on the other side. Oh, right. And then we'll have them open up questions from the audience. Who's first? Sure.
Are there any practical implications that we can grow from this panel? I mean, or is it just interesting information that we can read and be struck from? Or is there a practical bearing on the way we live our lives or formulate foreign policy? Yes. I thought President Reagan at his last news conference very good when the lady thought she was going to embarrass him about bringing the Bible into politics. And I was very interested to see
how he's going to answer that, him being a politician. And he said, well, he didn't think referring to the Bible was necessarily being political because he said that he finds as he reads the Bible, it has all the answers to all of our human problems. And he was grossly disappointed that we didn't refer to it more often. And when they ask Mahatma Gandhi many years ago why, after studying all the religions of the world, why he
didn't choose Christianity, he said, well, Christianity certainly had the greatest hope, but he never could find an example where people were literally practicing it. As it's been said jokingly, if all of those Arabs and Jews had become Christians, they'd quit fighting. But I don't know if that's true because we do have fights in the Christian community, some not so pleasant. Did that come anywhere close to answering it? I really think maybe what you were asking is,
you can say, well, God's on our side, but it's high time we determine whether or not we're on God's side. And we do that on an individual step that doesn't come as a nation. Just simply having God in trust on our money doesn't necessarily mean that God's on our side. After all, almost every conqueror that's ever moved in the conquest has always said, well, he's doing it in the name of God, Constantine, and even Hitler, who
was a Satan worshiper, said he was doing it in the name of God. Many people today think that Hitler was a Christian, particularly the Hebrew community, but he wasn't. He was along with Karl Marx and many others as Satan worshippers, or Luciferites, or whatever term they prefer. So I know you've heard the term, you must be born again, you must be saved, or so forth. Many people don't know how. Well, the Bible's very clear. I think
Romans 10:10, or Romans 10:9, if you can say with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you're saved. Say two things. Confess it verbally. Believe it in your heart. You're saved. Have eternal life, that spiritual life, eternal life. Then it goes on to say, because with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation, and with the heart we believe unto righteousness, and this is beautiful, for
whosoever, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So who is who forever? Myself, a cowboy, Episcopalian, and the Marines is certainly a whosoever. And I found that when I called upon the Lord, I didn't get a tape recording. The line wasn't busy. He answered himself, and it was a turning point in my life. I don't know whether that meets your theology or not, but that's my experience. And the Lord will
work differently with each of you. You may meet him in a crisis, or you may meet him when you aren't in a crisis. But I assure you, sometime in your life, you will need some help outside yourself. And I highly recommend the Lord Jesus Christ. Any other questions? Yes. Mr. Kissinger, an interesting individual. Well, biblically he is. I would just simply say that there are individuals who have great interest in economic matters all over the world.
And some would call it a conspiracy, and they do conspire. But legally, it probably wouldn't fit the term conspiracy because it has to be done secretly. You can get their membership lists and all that sort of thing. But they get together to protect their interests all over the world. You might call it antitrust, but when they control the courts and the Congress and other things, it really doesn't matter. So they have organizations, the ancient terms, Illuminati,
on down, Moriah, Bilderbergers, Fabian societies. In this country, the Consul of Foreign Relations, Chairman David Rockefeller, Trilateral Commission Chairman David Rockefeller, George Bush, Vice President, is a member of both the Trilateral Commission and the Consul of Foreign Relations. Mr. Carter and Mr. Mondale were charter members of the Trilateral Commission. And of the 60 original trilateralist charter members of the United States, 32 of them were in Jimmy Carter's cabinet. That seems to be a little coincidental. But
Mr. Reagan is the first president we've ever had since Woodrow Wilson seems to be a good name around here. Every president beginning with Woodrow Wilson down through Jimmy Carter were a member of one or more of those international organizations. And Mr. Reagan is the first one that is not a member. However, George Bush is a dual and triple member. And almost most of the cabinet of Mr. Reagan. So they do have specific interest and they go
on. Mr. Kissinger is the only man today who belongs to all six international policy level establishments. He's the only man. David Rockefeller belongs to three, the Bilderbergers, and he's chairman of two, the Council of Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. So therefore, Mr. Kissinger is a man worth listening to when he speaks. General Haig is one of his proteges. General Haig, when he was eligible to be a bird colonel in the Army, he was wearing two
stars and he passed. He never wore the third star. He's the first man in all history to go from major general to full general. He never was a lieutenant general and so on down the lines. And George Schultz is a protege of Mr. Kissinger. And we could go on and on and on that. But that's what I'm talking about. Mr. Kissinger seems to be sort of the liaison, the interlocking, he's a member of all the boards.
So he's an interlocking representative and all that sort of thing. Is that what you had alluded to as to his importance? And the Bible prophesies there'd be an individual like that who would front this. By the way, we're coming to a time, according to the Bible, that we will have to buy and sell with a number. Revelation 13:17 says. And he caused everyone to take an identifying mark and no one who didn't have that mark
wouldn't be able to buy and sell. Credit cards, debit cards, implanted chips, all sorts of technologies. In fact, over in one of the European countries, I can tell you which one, they're running a program where you don't have to take a mark. You just simply put your hand down on the same thing that reads your universal product code, you know, at the checkout counter. And it'll read the palm of your hand because the palm of your
hand, that is, it doesn't tell your fortune. Well, it does because it'll give you your bank balance right away. But anyway, it'll transfer money from your bank account to the store's bank account immediately. You'll see that developing very rapidly. The network is in place now. Could have been implemented as early as 1978. It's called Electronic Funds Transfer, EFT. And you'll see much, much more of it. Very effective, very good. And besides, the Bible says it's going
to come to pass, so it will. Now, see, the Bible is excellent. Now, I'm telling you that if you're an investment business, you ought to be investing in companies that specialize in these optical scanners and points of sale and the other things. Because you can read in the Bible that we're going to come to the day that that's the only way you're going to be able to buy or sell. So digital, national cash register, through those
ought to be a good investment. Anything that uses optical scans, good. Bible is an excellent investment manual. In the last days, Jesus said, before the coming of the Son of Man, they'll be eating and drinking. Restaurant business, bar business, ought to be pretty good. He says this gospel of the kingdom of God will be priest communications. Someone said if you had invested in Xerox in 1948, only $5,000, you'd be worth millions today. And a little
outfit called IBM, itty bitty machines, you know, IBM. They did rather well. And, oh, water. Revelation says in the last day, a third of the earth's water will be polluted and many people die from drinking it. That's my approach. I'm buying land that has pure water on it. I intend to start bottling water. People thought I was nuts back in 1967 and even crazier in 1973 when gasoline went through the ceiling on the price. When I
stated that you'll see the day that you'll pay more for a gallon of pure water than you'll pay for a gallon of gasoline. I got news for you that just happened the other day. Gasoline's coming down now that they found out there never was a shortage. And that's your rigged show again. Rip-off, it's called in the vernacular. And I paid a dollar and nine cents for a gallon of water and I could get gas for
99 cents. So then, oh, that's good enough. For investment, and no charge for that. Just send me 10% of your profits, it'll be fine. But I really mean it on that optical scanner thing and points of sale. That is a good investment. Lay off gold. Don't be investing in gold. That's a rigged show. Silver maybe, so forth. Any other? Yeah. You've made many valid and good criticisms of the Soviet Union tonight and their inhuman and
repressive policies. All the same, I think it's too easy to identify the U.S. with the forces of good and the forces of good, particularly in the Bible. And to forget that we as a nation also have to examine our failure in some ways to live up to the gospel of the testament. Absolutely. I'm interested in what you would have to say about the liberation theology movement in Central and in South America, which I see partially
as a response to United States policies in that area, also in response to Soviet Union policies. Mm-hmm. Our national policy since the end of World War II has been consistent. It's to treat our friends like enemies and our enemies like friends. We consistently do. So you say, well, Somoza was a dirty jerk. He probably was, but he was a friend. And you might say the Shah of Iran, he was also a number one jerk. Well,
not really all that bad, but he wasn't playing ball with the money people, so they got rid of him. But he was our friend. And on the human rights episode, I think it's very interesting of all the demonstrations against the Shah when in his 25-year reign, he had killed about 2,500 people, whether justified or not. That's really not a whole lot of folks, of course, unless you happen to be one of them. And he
had, I don't know what the prison count was, 10,000, 15,000 people in prison. Well, the Ayatollah has killed 10 times that many in his five-year reign or less, and certainly mountains greater. And we call that a little war over there between Iraq and Iran. Did you know the half a million people have died in that war? 500,000 people have died in that war. And so I would submit to you that we probably
would have been better to keep the Shah there and try to use our influence to change his policies. We would have probably been better to keep Somoza there and have our influence to change his policies rather than to force him into the arms of a war of national liberation and let Castro and the communist forces take him into captivity. And we're doing the same to South Africa. We seem to have a double standard. We're quite concerned
about what's going on in South Africa. I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about it, but we completely turn our back on what's happening in Cambodia, Campuchia, Thailand, those places, and certainly turning our back on the mountains and mountains and mountains of evidence of the gross lack of human rights in the Soviet Union as just reported by the International Board on Human Rights. They said that Russia, Soviet Union still stands clearly the worst score on human
rights and yet we're picketing the South African embassy doing absolutely nothing except feeding the Russians, sending them more tech. Well, I think it's absolutely dumb. If Russia is not our enemy, then maybe we could send them some food. But if they're not our enemy, then why are we building missiles? And nobody else is a threat to us. We're certainly not frightened of Canada or anybody else. So you see the dichotomy of the stupidity of our foreign
policy. And I say again, our policy, our foreign policy has been consistent. We treat our friends like enemies and our enemies like friends. Right down the line. My brother's right. We definitely ought to clean up our own house before we start pointing fingers at somebody else. And that begins with the individual. I've heard church members pray and I think it's a perfect prayer. Let us have revival and begin with me. That's where it has to start.
We have to begin with ourselves. The apathy in the United States, you're obviously not apathetical or you wouldn't be here. So I'm not talking to you. But as we were joking, one guy walked up to another and said, do you understand this widespread apathy? And he said, no, I don't. And I couldn't care less. So it's that attitude. You know, I won't get upset till they're knocking my door down. But it's time. And John Kennedy had
it right. The failure of freedom in any part of the world decreases our freedom by just that much. So we have the ability to win these wars. As a military man, I fought in three wars. I know how to win wars. I'm not talking about thermonuclear. I'm just talking about good old military tactics. If I had a Marine division, that's about 20,000 Marines with naval gunfire and supporting aircraft, I could clean up Nicaragua and El
Salvador in, oh, less than six months and get up to building a nation. You say, well, if we'd move in there and give them all the food and build their nation, and then communism would no longer be appealed to them. Did you ever try to do that when they're shooting at you? Israelis found it impossible to do. You can't plow your field when there are enemies up on the hill wanting to plow it with a
7.82 round. Just impossible. So you have to control the territory. That's military. Then you can get around to planting the seeds with some hope of being able to harvest it. So it's both all the way around. But I fully don't expect us to do anything about Central America. And I don't think we'll do anything even when they come into Mexico. And we'll see the most horrendous exodus of people across the Mexican border into Texas you can
imagine. Because that's our foreign policy. Thank you, brother, for the question because we do have to get down to the nitty-gritty and it starts right here with the individual. Any other? Yeah, I have a question for you. I know you touched on this a little bit with Joey's question about what practical aspects of this study have. And it's a little more general, perhaps. I'm just wondering, what is it profit people who already are Christians, who
already have a trust in Christ, as you've already said? This study of eschatology and this study of many times. Oh, very good question. Obviously, you're very interested in it, very interested in it. Here, what do you see the profit in it and what are the dangers somebody's handed out on them or do you have a chance? No, I didn't see that. But that's a criticism which maybe is valid in some respects. The people who become very
fatalistic and just sort of throw up their hand and say, well, everyone's going to blow themselves up and I'm just going to wait for the Lord and sit pretty. Well, you see, that's the fallacy of that thing. Is anybody frightened now? What I was telling you was, take off the pact, they're going to get it. There, God said so. So, whoever wrote that was assuming I was going to come in here with a gloom and doom
and a how Lindsay presentation. But that's not so. To answer the question, what's the benefit to the Christian of understanding Bible prophecy? Well, one is that God said he would do nothing but what he let his people know. He certainly let Noah understand what was going to happen. And it was highly profitable to Noah. Because he and his family were saved. Well, how does that apply today? Well, the scripture says those that are led by the
Holy Spirit, they're the sons of God and daughters of God. So, as Noah was led by the Spirit of God, Abraham led by the Spirit of God and so on all down the line. And it's available today. So, the Lord would put you where he wants you if you're obedient and he'll certainly take care of you. Many Christians are, quote, led. That means they're convinced they've been inspired by God to do certain things. Others are inspired
to do something else. Well, that doesn't mean that one is one doing thing and one thing and the other is the other. One of them is wrong. The Bible teaches that it's a many membered body making up the body of Christ and each member of that body has a distinct and different function, just like the members of this mortal body we have. And as one brother summed it up, he says, the safest place in the world
is in God's will and the most dangerous place is out of it. So, if you don't know the Lord, then you're in a sort of no man's land. It's highly hazardous to your health. And like smoking cigarettes, it's probably worse than that, if that's possible. But anyway, and I just gave a practical application as an investment manual. So, there are a lot of advantages to it. And believe me, for contingency planning in the Pentagon, it was
most important to see that somewhere down the road, the nations that were friendly at that time in 1967-68 were not going to be friendly in the future. And one that we considered as an enemy, Egypt was going to end up on our side. If you planned on that and knew it was going to happen and General Sutherland did, it was quite advantageous. But it takes faith. The faith and the fact that God's going to do
what he's said and try to read the scriptures objectively without your denominational goggle zone. And reading into it that's really not there. And that's difficult to do, but I purposed in my heart to read the Bible like I'd read a military directive or an intelligence report. Let's try to figure out what God was saying because I was convinced that God said what he meant and he meant what he said. And so my problem was to find
out what he's saying and how does that influence my actions and what should I be doing? Did I come anywhere near answering your question? Well, I guess I'm not paying a career in the Pentagon. No, please don't. It's frustrating. For the individual man on the street, somebody who's got a job, whatever, down the road, tends a church and maybe shares a gospel with a friend here and there. But I mean, he's not deciding global strategy. Right.
Oh, yeah, Ephesians and many outline human relations and certainly has that problem if he hadn't, well, he's unique to say the least because you got two people and you got a human problem. And so human relations are really various and Ephesians, many other gives the structure and don't rip off your employer says that be obedient to your master, do all things as if you were working for the Lord. Man, wouldn't that change the attitude of a
lot of laborers if they thought they were really working for the Lord and stood a US deal or whoever they were working for and quit trying to rip the individual off and treating him as as if they were really doing all things onto the Lord. So that would certainly change your attitudes as it's been pointed out. If you have a right relation with God, then you will automatically improve your relations with the human beings around you.
And that's the way Jesus said that people would come to know the Lord because they would see that we have a love agape one for the other and treat each other as we should. And therefore others would want to be treated that way and so forth. So in human relations, I'm sure that's what Mr. Reagan might have been talking about. One is the Bible really does cover every aspect of life here on the earth and it's
a source of great knowledge. And we're finding today there's literally an explosion into the body of Christ, people being, quote, converted, born again, whatever you want to say. And for those of you that have been involved in the charismatic renewal starting in the early 60s and sort of tapering off about now, I want you to know that it is literally exploding in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Southeast Asia, Africa, and Europe. I'm associated with an
organization called Full Gospel Businessmen Fellowship International and it's just really exploding. We had a convention in Singapore and a three-day convention and the auditorium of 15,000 people was packed out and by Saturday night we had to go to a soccer stadium. We had 65,000 people come and most of them accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. So it's the Lord said, as in the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of
the Son of Man. And we must remember that in the days of Noah, after Noah and his family entered the ark, God does shut the door and nobody else could get aboard. So today is the day of salvation. If you say you're not going to make that kind of decision, you just made a decision because making a decision not to make a decision is a decision. Now, did I get close? Okay, now let's now open up
the discussion and we'll take questions from the audience. Someone in the back. I'll just start off and say that I like you and we're in the same family. You've been on a while. I guess it grew. Excellent. On what count? I just want to, this is more of a comment that you can respond to. I would hope you wouldn't get too violent. Okay, I think that, you know, it's interesting that God's solutions are seem to be
warfare and destroying people, just, you know, you're a military man, your solution, his solutions are kind of your solutions. So that's number one. Number two, he seems to be getting all the people that, that you want to get, all the communists, the Russians, the Arabs and all these people. I think that's great, don't you? No, I don't. Okay. Given that this is a correct interpretation of the Bible or impossible one, which I'm not granting, it seems
to me that our attitude should be one of sorrow. Like Jesus, you know, weeping over Jerusalem, not sort of the glee that God's going to get him. Sure. Okay. It's not me. It's not fun. Let me answer to that. Then if you have that decent abiding concern, I would assure you that there are many missionary opportunities for you to go and bring to the Lord. See, I don't know what motivation I would have though. Well, you
just told me what the motivation was. You have a compassion and desire to see them come to know the Lord before that comes or to extricate them for their situation. Now, this is not the first time in the Bible that God wiped out the unbelievers. Joshua had to kill all of them in the promised land and own down the line. So it's not a new approach for God. This is not the first time he said he's
going to do it and did it. And so I didn't write the book. If I did, I wouldn't believe it. So if we're really concerned about the souls of people and there are many missionary societies, be glad to have you and you could do a great work and reap the harvest because certainly the time is for the harvest. There's no doubt about that and be a great time for soul winning. Yes, brother. If a Soviet block
of defeat is inevitable, then what is the value of a hurricane military preparedness? Because they don't believe the Bible, I guess. But the military people in Fort Fumble don't believe it. So it's that kind of thing. But would you like to bet the leave the survival of the United States up to my understanding of the scripture? I trust you have that much faith, but I don't. Certainly Russia has declared openly and still declares daily, but your
newspapers won't tell you that they're going to do us in. I don't know why the newspapers don't tell you what the speeches they're making and what not, except I don't want you to wake up, I suppose, on the very back row. Yeah, your comments about Henry Kissinger, unfortunately I didn't hear your talk the other day, but it seems to me that the reason he's on so many committees is the same reason a lot of my professors
in geology are on the American Geological Society and the Journal of Geological Research. Absolutely. I see that as a big conspiracy, and the fact that they're on 14 different councils of international relations doesn't strike me to be any great coincidence or conspiracy. I thought that's what I said. They're just looking out for their own interest. They're not looking out for your interest. Well, just geologists, I mean, since that is their job, one would expect them to
do just what they're doing, but I wouldn't expect them to be flushing the sovereignty of the United States down the tube to the benefit of our enemies and that type thing. Of course, I said it legally is not a conspiracy, but they do conspire. That is, they do plan, and you can read their plans. You can see their plans being implemented, and it's certainly a little bit of a coincidence when out of, there were 60 Americans
or North Americans in Tri-Lateral Commission as the charter members and 60 from the European area and 60 from Japan, and I thought it was just a little far-fetched to think it was just a coincidence that 32 of those ended up in Carter's cabinet. That's just a little far stretched per se that it was a coincidence and that that coincidence has occurred after administration, after administration, after administration. It's just a little far out. Just say
that it's an accident. Most of Reagan's people are Californians. No. You have a group of people that are considered the top in their field. Well, I think you ought to count them, and not the majority of them are from California. Some are. Is that a lot? No, it's a lot, but they're also, most of them, well, I'm not blaming Kissinger. His motivation is the same as the Bible said it was. The love of money is the
root of all evil and the power that comes with it, and they'll do anything to protect their interest. You probably would, too. I'm not blaming them. I'm just telling you, for your benefit, that they don't have your interest at heart. If you benefit, it's purely coincidental. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. What are these two committees actually doing, the Tribal Commission and the Council of Foreign Relations? Well, formulating our foreign policy and executing it through the
various representatives in the Congress and the Senate, and certainly George Shultz. Just for example, the reason I say we probably won't go to the Strategic Defense Initiative is because Secretary of State Shultz is the former president of Bechtel Corporation, the largest construction corporation in the world, Secretary of Defense Weinberger, Foreigner Vice President of Bechtel. Our liaison in the Middle East a few years ago is Philip Habib was on the board of directors of Bechtel. So Bechtel
makes a lot of money by digging holes in the ground and lining them with concrete for MX missiles. And you can begin to guess whoever gets the contract to rebuild Beirut probably be Bechtel. And when we impounded the money from Iran, Bechtel got the biggest piece of it, Chase Manhattan got the rest of it. And that was the reason for overthrowing the Shahs and the hostage type thing to impound, have a reason for impounding their money.
And see, Bechtel wouldn't benefit a whole lot from the Strategic Defense Initiative because that's a pretty diverse industry all the way along. So therefore I don't know. Just watch it and see and then you'll understand what I'm talking about because McNamara, when he was forced by the Supreme Court to spend the money that Congress appropriated for the defense, him being a part of the group to see that we didn't become a military power and see that
Russia did, made us buy airplanes that wouldn't fly, the F-111, rifles that wouldn't shoot, the M-16, had to fire quite a few generals and admirals, but who cares less, and a whole host of colonels had to leave the service all to over their protest. And each one who resigned and discussed called a news media, sent open letters to all the newspapers and not a single one ever prints it. So really doesn't do any good
because the controlled media is not going to tell you what's going on either. I'd just like to, I know you probably can't answer this question exactly, but I understand from previous talk you made that the person that controls the finances of a country controls the foreign and domestic policies in effect, and I just wondered if you could give us your best estimate as to where the interest on the Federal Reserve, that the Federal Reserve gets from
our national debt, where that interest goes. That's been a problem for quite a while. Starting back in 1969 Wright Patman of Texas, Chairman of the House Currency and Banking Committee, you'd have to recognize the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional. Congress reserves unto itself the right to print and coin money and control interstate commerce, that's in the Constitution. And you'll find also that the Federal Reserve is not a part of the government, it's a privately owned corporation. And
Wright Patman, and now Congressman St. Germain from Rhode Island, is now the Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee, and he too is trying to, I'll talk about Patman because I followed his career very closely in the Congressional record. He routinely for five consecutive Congresses would issue a subpoena for the Federal Reserve to turn over its corporate records to answer the question you just asked, where does the interest on the national debt go? And the
Federal Reserve would routinely refuse, he took them to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court refused to review the case, and he found them in contempt, fined them $5,000, that's, almost broke the bank I'm sure, and went to the next Congress, and they never turned it over. So I can't answer your question, it goes into what we would call a black hole call, well I won't name it, but that's where it goes, I can't answer your
question where it goes, but the joke goes that the trickle-down program of putting money on the top and it trickled down all the way to Rockefeller Rothschild, that's where it trickles down to eventually. So they do control the banks as to how much they can lend, what interest they can charge, they buy the money from the Treasury at the cost to print it and they issue it at face value and on and on, cost about
a nickel to print a dollar bill, cost about a nickel to print a thousand dollar bill, so they pay the...