Transcript
Thank you, Daniel, and thank you all. You have all asked a question of Dad, and he got to ask you questions. Now you've done your part. You all sent him a question, and Dad, I think you want an opportunity to respond to their questions, so I'm turning it over to you. Okay. My beloved wife typed out each of the questions. You don't even know that I have these questions, because you submitted them to Shirley, and in
good faith that she would hold onto them and not change them in any way. But I just want to say, first of all, I just loved every one of you and what you said. I mean, talk about the wonderful beginnings with you, Ken, and maybe everybody in this room doesn't know that Ken has been my partner in theological dialogue. One of my ministries that I have had is a theological dialogue group that people volunteer and come
to, and he has always been our reader, and he reads the texts that we are studying. We're right now going through Tim Keller's book on the nature of God and whether to believe in God, and it's just wonderful. And then just to watch you in your career, I love it when you preach, and I was just so taken by that Korean story, too, of your family. And maybe they don't know, but I knew your mother and
father, too, because they were in the church at Berkeley while you were a student going out on deputation. And Renee, I want to thank you for what you said. It was just, I was actually almost brought to tears. Now, that is dangerous, too, because I didn't sure I had any water or anything here. But it was your handling of George Gershwin, Rhapsody in Blue. I loved that. I just, actually, I was given a clue for that
because John McKay said that when he read that prayer, he said it really reads more like a lyric, and there's a musical quality to it. And John McKay wrote one of the great commentaries on the book of Ephesians, and so I have to give credit to him for that. Though he didn't mention Rhapsody in Blue, that 1926 amazing tour de force by George Gershwin with only about five days that he wrote that with Paul Whiteman. He
played it, and I have a recording of George Gershwin himself at the piano, and it's much faster than all of the recordings since because he was so, but it was there. And you could, it was, in order to honor the music hall in Brooklyn, which is kind of an odd thing to have a major concerto written for, but that's what it was for. And so what he did was put street sounds, the street sounds of horns
and whistles and people shouting and stuff like that was in that, and then suddenly it would break. I love the way you did that. It suddenly breaks into a grand theme, and the grand theme comes quietly, and then finally in the end the orchestra gets to rival the piano for the same theme. But they end up, and I felt that's exactly what Paul did in that prayer. Thank you. And then John, I tell you, who could
argue with you one plus one equals two? I have the product of American education. But I just, you know, John, he captured it, and I was, you were struck with what I was struck with, the fact that there are not a lot of Greek words that go directly into another language without even being doctored. But the one that does go into another language, namely Latin, is the word axius, but then without even doctoring it, it becomes
axium, and that is exactly a non-debatable starting point. And you know, that is so marvelous, and the way you captured that, John, that it is, you can go to the moon and you can do things in science if you don't fudge on the truth, that has to have an agreeable point. And that trusting in the faithfulness of God, trusting in his faithfulness, trusting in his goodness and love, and then of course the great C.S.
Lewis quote at the end. That was just wonderful. And then Daniel, really, you just wonderfully took hold of this, I don't know what to call the analogy, a parable, it's really an analogy, more than a parable, because yet it does act itself out. And remember I tell the story of the one little experience I had in my years in Berkeley, all the years as a pastor of Berkeley, because of Ron Patton, who is the team physician
for the Golden Bears, I got invited, I think that was because of him, I got invited to be with the football team, the Golden Bears, at their, when they had home games, they stay at the Claremont Hotel on Friday night, and on the Saturday morning I got to go there and do what they call chapel hour, and some of the coaches and some of the players came to that, in fact I got a football inscribed by
the players that when I left to go to Seattle, so they didn't want me to forget that I gave prayers always just for the safety of both teams, and they all agreed that I never prayed for victory for the Golden Bears, but for safety of both teams, but I was so struck, and I put it in that parable, that the biggest thing that happened on Saturday morning was every athlete being taped, the whole ballroom of Claremont
Hotel was devoted to the trainers, taping every single guy, and their feet, their knees, even their chest to protect them from internal, after all you know the helmet is a weapon in football, and so you got to be really careful, you got to protect the players from the helmet, and especially the inner organs, and I was so struck with that, and I said to myself, isn't it funny, St. Paul begins with that, the belt of truth,
the belt of truth, and I just loved the way you handled it in that, I won't call it a parable, call it an analogy of St. Paul, that Paul loves language, so now I get to read, and I've got to be careful because I can't go overtime either, I've got Tony Watley here watching me on that, but I do have time to take each question, Ken Sunu, you wrote this, Paul was an angry opponent of Jesus
before he was transformed by his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, how might you explain how Jesus handled hostility? I, as a Christian, I'm faced with hostility in the time we're living in, okay, how did he handle it? You know I just absolutely love, and by the way I wrote my answers, but I'm not going to read, he keeps me on target I hope, that how does he handle hostility? You know, before the road
to Damascus, St. Paul is described by Luke who loves him, and Luke is his companion and traveled with him in all of his ministries, but Luke is the one who says, breathing murder and mayhem, Paul went to the high priest and saw if he could get, this is during the radicalized period, the extremist period in Paul's life, if he could get from the high priest a letter that he could take to Damascus and then arrange for
the arrest of members of the Way, these people who are following the Rabbi Jesus, and bring them back. And you know the Roman government allowed that because the Roman government, from Caesar Augustus on, said we won't tamper with local religions, and so we'll back up those courts, and so the Jewish court could have, they didn't have the right of capital punishment, and that's why the stoning of Stephen was an illegal act, but they did have the
right to punish. And so Paul is, he ascended to the stoning of Stephen, the first martyr of the New Testament church, but anyway he went with murder in his heart, and on the road he is, we don't know if it was high noon, but it was light noon, the light from above blinded him, and one of the great artists' portrayals of Paul's road to Damascus is the Spanish artist who saw in his painting that Paul is
blinded, the horse is the one who sees the Messiah without fear, and that was in that great painting, the horse saw it. The created order knew that this is the Lord, but Paul of course is blinded in that great painting, and this blinded St. Paul is there, and Jesus treats him as if he were a lost sheep who's wounded, himself is hurting. In fact, in the text, you know, three times the road to Damascus is mentioned,
and three times, and one of the great renderings of that says, it hurts you to kick against the goads. Paul is being told by our Lord, being a persecutor of me is hurting you more than it is yourself, but why do you persecute me? And then Paul gets his first great moment of faith, and he says, what am I supposed to do Lord? That's the only sentence we have from St. Paul on the road to Damascus,
not, I will go and preach the gospel. No, no, that's not there. Just what do you want me to do? And I love the understatement of the text. Go to Damascus, you will find out. And so he's led, we're told, in blindness to Damascus, and then we are switched to a church. This little group of believers come up to Paul on the street called Strait, and they comfort him, they baptize him, and they heal him. And
not Jesus doesn't heal him. He lets the church, lets these believers heal. And then Paul gets his eyesight back. He was just a temporary blindness. And then he stays with them several days. And then he goes back to Jerusalem. But the people are so frightened of him in Jerusalem, the believers, that beloved Barnabas says, Paul, why don't you cool down and go over to Tarsus where you grew up, and stay there for a while. And he
went for three years and, you know, took Paul seriously. And then finally, Barnabas, Paul took Barnabas seriously. Barnabas goes down to Antioch. This second, that's the third largest city of the Roman Empire in population and a reckless city. Roman soldiers were not allowed to even have liberty in that city because of its prostitution and the red light district. And yet in that city, when Barnabas went down, and I love the way Barnabas goes to there, and
it says when he saw the grace of God in the city. It doesn't say he saw the corruptness in the city. He saw the grace of God. And he realized that God is blessing that city. And isn't it ironic that it's that city that sends the Paul and Barnabas out as missionaries. They're the missionary city, this wild city. And but anyway, so Paul is simply told to go over to Damascus and there he is blessed. And
so I like to put it this way. The answer to hostility is to model grace. It really is. Grace is more powerful than hostility. And part of grace is not saying too much, but giving time. Time is needed and also teaching. Go to Damascus and then the disciples of Damascus, they do the teaching. They taught Paul. And then Paul decides, hey, I'm going to join this group of believers. They were called the people of the way.
I'll join them. And I really think that is an answer to your question. We have to know how to treat people and listen to them, but also to realize that they may be hurting. And look for the thing that is hurting. And is there anything that can be said or shown that they're not a lost cause? I've always said this in my own strategy. I like to see everybody as mid-story in their story. Never at
the end or maybe at the very beginning, but their mid-story. That means there's a lot left to be decided. And I was so glad you put that in, Renee, in your handling of the prayer. Your mid-story. And that makes all the difference. And so I would say when somebody realizes that you're not writing them off when they are angry, but you're saying that's where you're at now. I'm going to let you be where you're
at now. And maybe we can model something that is going to open up in like the Karl Barth quotation. By the way, I have a quotation from Karl Barth that will clear things up for you. So it's good to have heroes you can point to. But anyway, I just I love that question. Now, the second question that was that I've got it. I should put them in the right order. I've got now number two is Renee
Sundberg. The mystery of the gospel is that God's love is for all people. Who in your life has helped you to live out this truth? What advice would you give us in a time where dividing walls seem to be growing? Well, I think in a way within the fellowship and within people that are trying to grow in grace, I do believe it is important that the truth be told. And when you see that something is being
building a dividing wall and seems to be building that up and creating hostility and creating the freedom to treat people outside of your wall as your enemy. And I think our Lord answered that in the Sermon on the Mount. In the fifth chapter of the Sermon on the Mount, he said, You have heard it said of old, love your neighbor, hate your enemy. Well, that's not said anywhere responsibly in the Bible except in the Dead Sea
Scrolls. And they're not in the Bible. But that you could hate enemies, you could hate Greeks or you could hate people. But our Lord says no, he actually gives a clear teaching. No, I say love those who persecute you. He goes all the way. And then the next sentence, and this is Sermon on the Mount from our Lord. Love those who persecute you and you will show that you belong to your heavenly father. In other words,
then trust God to do the rest. God will do the vengeance. Let him, he's the judge. They're mid story in their life right now. And you just do what you can to first tell the truth. And the truth is they're not your enemy. The people outside, they need to grow. And it takes time to grow. And therefore, I love that you, in fact a couple of you made comments about how important it is to teach the
truth. Teach the truth. And especially with the household of faith. When the household of faith, the believers, become captured by political falsehood. And maybe they do it, they think, to get more advantage for ourselves in doing what are causes that we're on in favor of. But when they do that, they in a sense sell their soul because they now break the axiom. They break that. They say, oh yeah, we'll go along with a little untruth or
just a little bit of lying. We'll go along. And after all, if I can treat these people as my enemy, then I'm justified to do whatever I want to do. They're an enemy. Jesus cuts that off with truth. And so thank you for that. And then, John, your question. I thought you would be... I don't do a lot of word studies in my commentary that are kind of fun. But I did have a lot of fun
with kubeia. Kubeia, the word for dice, is only used in this one place in the New Testament. It's not used anywhere else. And yet Paul uses it and he uses it the way you used it. He used it as a deception. In fact, in my commentary, I actually went... You have to buy my commentary to see this. But I actually went to all the most important old translations and new translations of the Bible. And I wondered
how did they, great scholars who know the Greek language very well, and how did they handle that word where he does mention dice players, the dice players. But nowhere in the text it says, beware of dice players. Instead, all the translators said, usually use a variation of this word, beware of trickery, which shows that most people felt that the dice players were tricksters. By and large, very, very few honest dice players, evidently. But every translation handles
it that way. Beware of trickery. You don't need trickery. You need truth. And you know, John, you were just absolutely marvelous on that today. Here's your question, though. Many in today's digital generation reject formal expressions of religious belief, including Christianity. Given Paul's warnings of the dangers of deception in Ephesians, what is the best way to rekindle this generation's interest in the gospel? And actually, you know, John wrote two questions. And what other questions he wrote, but
we were... I was told that you were only going to get one question they would give to me. But the other question is... It is your question. Your question was about kubeia, kubeia. He says, why is kubeia used? Where is it used? Where else? And of course, I had to answer it. It isn't used anywhere, except that the translators of the text felt it meant trickery. And it looks like you came down on it that way,
too. So, you know, the thing about trickery is that deception makes promises that are not true. And therefore, we want to make sure that the promises that are not true, we don't want to honor them. We want to honor the truth, but we want to do it in a way that listens to a generation that is maybe frustrated and in some ways inoculated against the gospel because the church itself has stooped to not following truth. And
I really think that's what you were saying, that when the church, when the Christians, when the believers, it could be your Bible study you're in, but when your Bible study or you're handling a great question with your own children and others, if you don't tell the truth, look at it. If we blew it, say we blew it, but don't tell, don't fake it. And we don't need fake fakery. We need truth. And by the way, in
my commentary, I do make a good example of where the Christians were being blasted by the silversmiths. Remember the silversmiths were making a lot of money with Artemis shrines. After all, a warrior shrine is pretty nice to have. And maybe that's why Alexander the Great helped rebuild that temple when it burned, is he loved Artemis. That was his favorite god because she was a warrior. And that's what Alexander the Great was. But at any rate, I
said that when the silversmiths, and this is, I put this in my commentary. It's also in the book of Acts. When the silversmiths attack Paul, they say, Paul, this man has troubled all of Asia. They meant Southeast Asia. I mean East Asia, that would be Turkey around Ephesus. And the whole Roman world has been bothered by this man. And the sale of our shrines have gone way down because of this man. And then comes the charge.
He has dared to say that shrines made by human hands are not gods. And that's what caused the riot. But you know what's interesting? Paul never speaks against that. He never speaks against the Artemis. He never speaks against that silversmith. Because the silversmith did not give a fake a charge. He just told the truth. Because Paul did say that shrines made by human hands are not gods. He said it. And so he lets it slip. And
he tells the other Christians, don't go to the temple and fight against that. Because he just said the truth. We'll wait for that truth to finally percolate within the culture. And then we'll have a chance to show the truth. But don't make a fool of yourself by calling that falsehood or calling it woke theology. No, it's true. That is true. The shrines made by human hands are not gods. That's good news. But it's being taught by
a guy who is totally furious and wants to stir up a riot against Paul. And Paul never once mentions how bad that silversmith was. No, he said it right. He told the truth. So look for where there is truth. And I think that's what you're doing, John. You know, when we did our times together, it was always one of the high points is to hear you handle tough questions. And that's one of them. Why are so
many people disgusted with the church today? Well, if the church has decided to buy in with political advantage in order to get something and get something that we want, then that's like a shrine. They're saying it has a god in it. No, it doesn't have a god in it. God did not put that shrine there. That is not divine. So be sure we don't call something that is human divine. OK, and then so thank now finally,
Daniel. Daniel said this out of all the pieces that make up the armor of God, built of truth, breastplate of righteousness, feet fitted with the gospel of peace, shield of faith, helmet of salvation, sword of spirit. Is there one in particular that you think is most underutilized? Now, that is that is a tough one. Now, you said you feel it's a sword of the spirit. Not by the way, it's a sword, not a steel. So it's
not a warlike weapon. So Paul totally de-warfies it. And he calls it the spirit of the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, the truth, the gospel. Let the gospel be your weapon. Let it be. And but so anyway, it's underutilized, I guess. And that's what you're saying that you want to be sure we use that sword. I came up with a couple others, too, that I feel I just love all these
pieces. I love the because I had that golden bear experience. I just love the the belt plate, the belt of righteousness. I mean, the belt of truth. It does hold everything together. You cannot hold everything together with falsehood. Falsehood is going to be. God is not going to defend it because two plus one plus one equals two. So he is he will follow the axiom. So so anyway, I do love that. I love the the belt
plate, the belt of truth. I love that. But I also love the feet because I'm a mountaineer. So one thing I did do a little bit of in my life was and there's a person here in this room who came up to me and said, I climbed Mount Shasta five times with you when I was at Berkeley. Hey, you're not all bad. That is really you're not all bad. But I tell about about Shasta trip in
my book that happened with my grandkids. And I only went to Camp Two. I didn't go up to Camp Four and I didn't climb because after all, I felt my job was to guard against bears, to guard all the supplies. So I stayed in the motel while they went. And then I worried about them when they were climbing. But they got there and they was so proud of them. So I like the feet shod. And by
the way, a Greek word is used with the feet there that is marvelous that Paul brings a big thing up. Histemi means to stand in Greek. And so he uses histemi, but then he puts an addition to it. High speed, quick to act feet, feet that are quick to act for peace. Isn't that interesting? Not for war, but for peace. And that would be the shoes of the gospel. And but you know, in mountaineering, your shoes
are everything. You cannot get a blister on your big toe. And that's by having it hit the front of your boot. And when you're climbing a mountain, you're coming down, your foot is going to hit the front of your boot. And that is the worst thing is to get a blister. It'll end your whole mountaineering time, may even cause you to lose a toe. But don't do it. So I love that feet, that beautiful feet of
the gospel. So I love that one. And of course, the helmet of salvation is got to be good. But I don't want to overplay it because the brain is the thing you should protect the most of all. And so that's a helmet of which is, by the way, he uses the word salvation there. It's your brain is saved by your helmet. It'll save your brain so you don't get badly treated. And then, of course, the one
that I do love that is maybe a little more obscure is the breastplate of righteousness. Because righteousness, dikaios, could be translated just right. Because it has justice in it and it has truth in it. Truth and justice together, just right, is righteousness. And so in a way, it's the breastplate of just rightness, which enables you to be for truth and yet forgiveness. Because that dikaios is also the word for reconciliation, for forgiveness. So the breastplate, as
I see it for a football player or for a person doing any kind of physical activity, the breastplate protects your liver, protects your kidneys, protects your lungs, protects your heart. It's a breastplate and gives you room even when you're wounded to keep going because it's protecting it from further injury. And so that mixture of forgiveness with truth is the breastplate of righteousness. And then I have so much fun with the shield of faith because that little
is an implement that is mentioned by St. Paul that is used and it's funny. He says this about the shield. The shield will, the fiery darts of the devil will bounce off your shield. Paul does not overrate the power of evil. They'll bounce off. They don't stick. And that's great. And that's with the shield. I just love it. That's the humor of Paul. He is saying the fiery darts of the devil will bounce off when you
have that shield. So I want to thank all of you for those questions. And God bless us all. And you know, I'm now, I'm the last speaker. Oh, I know. I've got a prayer that's going to be given. And a member of my beloved board of Earl Palmer ministry. Come on up, Mary. I just love you. So I'm not used to speaking with this. Is that good? Is that good? OK. Well, oh, my goodness. This morning
we've been so blessed. Thank you, Earl. And thank you to all of you. Let us pray. Heavenly Father, we praise you and thank you for today and for all the families represented here. Thank you for Earl. And thank you for this one. His wonderful study of Ephesians. Thank you that he calls us to be people of the gospel. Thank you, Lord, for each of these speakers. Father, help us to know what is the hope to which
we're called and lead us to become more like you. In your son's name. Amen. Amen. Oh, thank you. Well, I do want to end by thanking everybody. These wonderful cinnamon rolls that you had. Wonderful Katie. And and Dale Whitney. We couldn't have done any of this without Dale Whitney, head of the building here at this church. And thanks to the University Presbyterian Church for being so kind to us to let us come in and have this
Saturday morning in this beautiful, beautiful building. Thank you, my son, for having the very tough job of trying to corral me and and and then to then enable me to honor these great responders. You know, I would love I get to give them an addiction, but I would love to have us. We have especially from Renee. But every one of you, the grace of God has become the big, the big theme today that enables us to
make it enables us to share with people and be with people who are hostile, but not to overrate it or to overinterpret it, but to just be faithful in loving people around us. So I'm going to ask us to stand for our for the for the benediction. But I would like if we could sing the first and last stanza of that song about grace. Amazing grace. And now be the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the
love of God, our father, the fellowship and encouragement of the Holy Spirit. Be with us all today and always. Amen. Amen.